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My mint experiences -- a blog of sorts
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: My mint experiences -- a blog of sorts Reply with quote

I've decided to make a personal coin, and this time I'm going to do the whole thing from start to finish -- no 'middle man'.

(A big thank you to the vendor who suggested I was ready to take this step!!!)

So, now for the big problem. How do you find a mint in a community that doesn't like giving up this information?

I have heard of a few. Bonjet, Jian Pins -- but they are apparently both owned by the same parent company.

I have found others using alibaba.com. Dozens of others in fact! But the problem here is whether specific ones have ever even heard of geocoins before. I suppose there isn't much difference between a military challenge coin and a geocoin. But understanding tracking numbers, etc would be a help.

So, here are the mints I have contacted so far:

Bonjet
Jian Pins
Asny Craft Factory
Wanjun Gift
Zhongshan Unique Gifts&Crafts

I'm not asking that you give up info on mints that you use, but if you have any opinion on the ones listed above, please post it!

And if you do want to name other mints, go right ahead! Very Happy
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Last edited by E&Cplus3 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tooey



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only ever dealt with Jian Pins, and I have to say that they have been very good to work with. The language problem will probably be a difficulty with whatever mint you go with, but just take it slow and precise, I found that Lydia at Jian Pins always went to great trouble to check back with me to ensure she fully understood any queries or instructions.

You might like to think of registering with www.madeinchina.com - you can search there and submit enquiries to manufacturers, all of course are keen to win your business, but their responses to your enquiries will give you an indication of how easy or difficult it will be to converse with them. I made lots of enquiries with lots of companies and always asked if they had experience of producing Geocoins, if they didn't then I knew I would not be introducing them to the concept, even if I thought they had the ability to do them. Jian Pins certainly have lots and lots of experience.

There have been suggestions that companies will not want to work with individuals, I have to say that that has not been my experience with Jian Pins, they are happy to work with me even on the production of only 50 coins.

Having said all that - I am certainly not experienced myself in producing coins, having only done two. As for colour combinations and finishes - there are certainly plenty of coins already produced to give one an idea of what does and doesn't work, but I am sure the mint will also give you advice.

All the best with your next project. Be sure to come back and update us with your progress and experience.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the best material for coins?

I have received a quote from Bonjet for die cast zinc alloy.
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geocachingdragon



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
Location: the great white north

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a lot of experience with mints . But for metals for a Die cast zinc would mostly be used on a more complicated design lots of 3d . My geocachingdragon 2007 was die cast ..as was the recently made one Fear no Cache. But if a simpler design I would go with brass . Most People seem to like to hold the heavier coins. But depends a lot on design.
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The Moop Along



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so you know the Fear No Cache was not die cast. It was spun pewter Cool
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geocachingdragon



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
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Location: the great white north

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry bad Terminology I guess die cast would be metal poured into a cast of the design . Mine and Fear no cache were spun where a Plastic or wax coin is made a mold is formed around it then the wax is melted out and then hot metal is spun in the mold to form the coin. this method would be for more detailed coins . A brass coin has dies made and then are stamped onto a blank metal coin to leave the pattern most geocoins and almost all metal currency uses this method .
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has now been four days since I decided to work directly with a mint on my personal geocoin. I continue to learn new things about working with a company half a world away and in a completely different culture.

Of the five companies I originally contacted, three returned my email within 12 hours, and a fourth responded within 2 days. The fifth company has yet to respond. The two big companies responded relatively promplty.

One of the things that struck me as odd is that all the sales reps are women with oddly Western names Smile

All the sales reps are very friendly (as much as email allows you to judge this), and able to answer all my questions promptly -- whether from personal knowledge, or after contacting sales managers or production managers.

All of the reps have been trying to hurry me along to committing to produce my coin with them though. Three of the reps sent me a quote based on a one paragraph description without even seeing the artwork! At least once a day they ask me to refer to the email with the quote and tell me that it is reasonable and competitive.

I have yet to decide which mint I will work with, but a couple of them are close to disqualifying themselves, based on what they are willing/able to provide.

I didn't think my design was terriby complicated, but I have run into issues with all four of the mints I am working with. None of them are willing to make die stamped coins in either copper or brass. They are all pushing for die cast with zinc alloy. One mint has said they can't do the cutouts at all, despite the fact that they sent me a sample photo of a coin with smaller cutouts than what I am asking for. They want to do recessed metal with white enamel fill instead!

On another issue, one of the companies has said they can't do hard enamel on both sides -- they are pushing for soft enamel. AND they don't want to do multiple levels of design. They want all metal to be either raised or recessed -- no in between levels. I'll be sending them photos of coins in my collection with multi-level designs, hard enamel on both sides, and transparent hard enamel (they sent me a soft enamel color chart despite my specifications for hard enamel).

I have resigned myself to the fact that this coin will be done in zinc alloy using the die cast method. It doesn't seem worth the fight, since ALL the companies are saying it can't be done. One rep actually explained that zinc alloy, although lighter, is actually stronger than brass or copper, so will allow for sharper more detailed designs with less chance of damage.

The drawback of zinc alloy is that it IS lighter. People seem to like the heavier weight of copper or brass. But this coin is going to be 1.75" so should have a good weight regardless of material. In addition, however, zinc alloy does not allow for some finishes -- they won't bond to it. So, I won't be having any antique gold or antique bronze editions.

Like I said, so far all four companies are still in the running. I'll see after tonight whether all of them remain so. If there is no satisfactory resolution to the cutout and enamel issues, two of them may be given the boot.

That's another thing that has been mildly frustrating. The reps always start contacting me at about the time I am going to bed. With a 12 hour time difference, this means that it is just about noon in China before they start sending me emails. I'm not sure if they deal with local customers first, larger customers first, or what the deal is. But it means that I have to stay up til the wee hours of the morning if I want any meaningful discussion to take place.

This has been a much longer post than I expected!

Time to stop and wait for the next round of emails.
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tsunrisebey



Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Montana, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the world of minting coins on your own, lol. Part of going it alone is the learning curve and you'll always be learning when it comes to working with Chinese mints. Just hang in there because you are learning valuable information.

I have posted on GS a number of times about this very fact and working with the mints and how time consuming and at times; frustrating, it can be but in the end many times rewarding to see all your hard work come to fruition in fancy metal coins.

I've also said that to those who complain about prices, they have no idea the amount of time and the crappy hours you will pull making a coin come to life. There is no better way to gain an appreciation for the art of designing and minting your own coins until you have done the entire process on your own.

You will find at times you want to pull your hair out at every stage or other times it goes as smooth as a baby's bottom but you will be so proud of yourself each time the final product arrives and the sense of accomplishment is at times overwhelming. I remember my first few coins on my own and when they showed up, I almost cried. I know that sounds kinda goofy but even to this day, I get very emotional when my coins arrive at my home. I've freely admitted that I'm very attached to my own stuff because it's always about what I love and each design is a piece of me and when those metal pieces arrive and you pull them out of their pvc pouches, I have often asked myself "did I really create this?" (you know what I mean).

So take it all in and when you put your coin up for sale, the biggest compliment that you will be paid is not measured in money but in the fact that people will see something in your coin that touches them in some manner and they will want to add it to their collection or trade for it. That in my mind makes the entire process worth it. That makes me smile and why I keep at it Smile

So hang in there and you will get through it.

tsun
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a lot to report over the weekend. I've dropped one of the mints since they still refused to do the cutouts for my design. So that leaves me with 3 companies that I am still in contact with.

On Friday I received an odd email from my contact at Jian Pins. She asked me if I had ever done business with Bonjet, since I have a file with them.

Apparently, if a client ever does work with one of Bonjet, Jian Pins, Jinsheu or Logojet, they must always contact the same mint for further work. All four companies are owned by the same parent company, and apparently some of their records are shared. If clients jump from one sister company to another, it creates 'difficulties'.

I simply told them that I had contacted a number of mints to see if prices were similar. For now, that seems to have smoothed things out.

As far as price goes, Unique Gifts has a far superior cost/unit quote! Bonjet and Jian Pins are within $0.20 of each other, but Unique Gifts is a full $0.50 cheaper than that! Their die fee is also cheaper. Granted, they haven't sent me any artwork yet, so I don't know if they understand what I am asking for. But then, neither has Jian Pins.

Bonjet is the only mint that has sent me artwork, and it looks really good. I was a bit worried that some areas had been simplified, but then my sales rep sent an explanation email saying that the areas simplified in their artwork would still look like my original artwork. I was very happy about that. Too bad they are the most expensive so far.

I also learned that when making samples, the mints will make 4 or 5 of each finish ordered and send one (or simply send photos of one) to the client. The mint keeps the rest, but charges the client for ALL of the coins made. So, if you have 5 finishes produced as samples, you'll pay for 25 coins to be minted and MAYBE receive 1 of each, if you insist on it.

I've asked all the mints to send me a complete list of all platings and double plating combinations that are possible on zinc alloy. So far none have replied fully. Bonjet replied saying that Gold/nickel and Gold/foggy silver double platings are available.

Unique Gifts replied saying that gold on antique bronze could be done, even though all the other mints have said that antique bronze will not adhere to zinc!!

That's all for now.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: Just since my last post, the sales rep from Unique Gifts contacted me saying they would not start on artwork until I had committed to having moulds made. Basically they are asking me to go ahead without seeing what they can do with my design.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further update: This probably should have occured to me from the start. If you use Adobe Illustrator or any other graphics package in which text is saved simply as font information, make sure you rasterize, expand, or otherwise save the text as anything but font information!

If the mint doesn't have the same font installed as you do, the artwork will look like crap!
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scoop on finishes:


One of the mints finally got back to me with a list of what finishes can and cannot be done on zinc alloy.

For single plating
Gold
nickel
black nickel
antique copper
antique nickel
antique silver
satin nickel
satin gold
satin silver (oxidizes easily)
silver (oxidizes easily)

For two-tone plating
Generally not suggested but if the client insists...

CAN BE DONE:

polished + polished, but not copper on silver due to oxidation
satins + polished but not black nickel
polished gold/nickel + antique silver/antique nickel

"All of these combinations on any coin designs must have approval from the factory before we can commit to making the tones in the style the customer wants. The factory can then make suggestions on how to make it better and tell us what can and cannot be done for each particular design."

CAN'T BE DONE:

antique + antique
polished copper + any antique finishes
black nickel + any antique finishes
polished finishes + antique copper/bronze/or gold
satins + satins except satin nickel + satin gold
satins + antiques
satins + black nickel

Important Note: the limitation on antique gold, antique bronze and bronze is only valid for imitation hard enamel on zinc alloy. If you use soft enamel or no enamel, these finishes are available.

Go figure.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've whittled the mints down to one:

Bonjet.

They came in with the best artwork and the best price.

I would like to show off the artwork for the first ever E&Cplus3 personal coin!



The coins will be trackable AND numbered.

Hope you like it!
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geocachingdragon



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
Location: the great white north

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool design is it going to have 4 cut outs or 8 Just wondering about the outer piece of the Channels .
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will have eight cutouts. Four interior and 4 'notches' on the edges. The only structure holding the four quadrants together will be the cross of the 'Gx' in the middle and the ring of the 'Gx' near the edge.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a lot has happened over the weekend. I payed the die fees and the sample and shipping fees. This morning I received confirmation that their bank had received the money (pretty slow for 'instantaneous' transfer of money)

Just a little note -- shop around for the best rate on money transfers. The mint suggested either Western Union or bank wire transfer but claimed that Western Union would likely be cheaper. I did some looking around and used the online tools supplied by Western Union. It seems that their fee is based on the amount of money transferred -- $15 Cdn for $185 US; $20 Cdn for $240 US. My bank only charged $13.50 Cdn for any amount up to $1000 US.

I changed one of the colours at the suggestion of a fellow designer who has more experience with what the colours will look like on metal (thanks for the tip!!!) and the mint confirmed it.

So now I just wait for a shipping date and tracking number.
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MustangJoni



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Bonjet, and one of the things they don't tell you unless you ask, is that they will accept credit card payments. I have a Paypal credit card, so I use that to pay my mint fees.
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Tooey



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jian Pins also accept credit card payments, however they do have a ceiling on the amount they will accept by credit card, not sure what the threshold is but from memory I'm pretty sure it was somewhere around the $400 mark. They take payment in American Dollars, so if you live outside of the USA you will also have to factor in currency exchange fees as well as transfer charges.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I woke up this morning to find an email waiting for me saying that the sample coins have been finished and are in their quality control department.

I think I'll stay up a bit late tonight for the first photos. Very Happy

Coins should be in my hands sometime next week!
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JoenSue



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 16
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have been following this project and appreciate the progress reports and insights. It really helps alot understanding what is involved in creating a coin and working with a mint. Thanks and keep up the cometary and we can't wait to se the pictures. We will be unstuffing the mattress for this one.. Laughing
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait to see the pictures either! Since the last email on Wednesday, in which my sales rep said that the pics would be emailed 'later in the afternoon', I haven't heard a thing.

I'm hoping there will be a response tomorrow morning.
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally received pictures from the mint, and I have to say that I am disappointed.




These are the best pictures of the whole bunch. There were six coins minted and most of them I can't even tell what finishes are being photographed. The shots are all blurry, most have flash glare washing out the colours or reflecting off the metal.

I'm going to have to wait to see the coins in my hand to see if I'm happy with them. But based on these photos I see one MAJOR problem. It doesn't look like the art deco border on the front is a 2nd level under the enamel. It looks to me like it is the same height as the rest, and exposed. It also looks like they used soft enamel instead of the hard enamel I requested.

Again, not happy, but I'll reserve final judgement until I see them for real.

Still waiting for a tracking # too.
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Tooey



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely looks like soft enamel to me. Personally I think hard enamels give a much crisper cleaner look to a coin, but I know that the soft enamels are preferred by some, and are also cheaper - so it would be wise to refer back to your ordering instructions and quotes to ensure you are charged correctly as per the finish they have given you. Hopefully these will look much better in hand - photographs do not always do a coin justice, hoping this is the case with yours.
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JoenSue



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 16
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope the samples come in with your expectations. IT is a great design and concept. Push to get what you envisioned!
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E&Cplus3



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 173
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The samples came by FedEx yesterday. There are a few unexpected differences, and I don't know if they were misconceptions on my part, a problem in communication, or just some factory worker doin' their own thing.

The artwork I approved had the outer rim of each square the same level as the letters ('E', '&', 'C', '+', '3') and the Gx logo. The art deco border was a lower level that should have been under the translucent hard enamel. It looks like what they did was to make the outer rim the same height as the art deco border and make the letters and Gx logo raised. This means they couldn't use hard enamel on the front because they wouldn't then be able to grind it flat.

Most everything looks good on the back, except they used soft enamel instead of the hard enamel that was quoted.

I'll post pics later today.
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