www.coinmatters.com

[fox-and-the-hound]

So last night I started working my way up for a severe noodle-slapping/geocide (whichever came first) when another question about PathTags resulted in Eartha slamming her heavy heal down on it.

In the thread that got crushed: "Pathtags are not related to geocaching.com so we don't discuss them here. They are tracked and discussed elsewhere, (I guess). Thread closed."

Did you know your custom sigitems aren't related to geocaching.com? News to me!

So I responded: "First and foremost, they aren't trackable at all as hitchhikers. They're signature items specifically made for leaving in geocaches and therefore DIRECTLY LINKED TO CACHING!!! I have had quite enough of these high handed tactics from Mods lately and I will be taking this (again) to Groundspeak central unless you can explain this one to me. You want to move it over to the general forums like you did with other signature threads? I could at least understand that, but this is getting a bit out of hand."

And her response: "Per Bryan at Groundspeak, I was told pathtags are trackable elsewhere. They are neither coins nor trackable on geocaching.com. The geocoin forums are not for discussions of pathtags."

So I hammered back: "Bryan himself told you that specifically you say? That's interesting.. I'm curious why he told you they were trackable elsewhere since I have a couple hundred different tags that are NOT trackable. Not coins? Are you really going to use that? Let's see, they're made by our coin people, using the same metals, stamps/dies and enamels so I'm curious as to how you reach that conclusion. You had better get out there and shut down all the signature item threads then since they promote laser-engraved wooden nickels, printed wooden nickels, stamped wooden nickels, sculpey clay and a couple billion other products. If you're being told to kill PathTag specific threats, I'll be sure to convey that along to the people at the geocoinstore. I'm sure they'll be interested to know."

Suddenly she's back-pedaling: "I had to go back and find the message from Bryan, and he told me they are not trackable on geocaching.com, and that the geocoin forums are not for discussions of pathtags or other sig items. We've left the wooden nickel thread because it was so old. But if he asks me to move it then I will. The geocoin forums are for the discussion of geocoins. That's pretty clear.

Eartha
Groundspeak Volunteer"

I you freakin kidding me?!!! The sigitems and nickels (hundreds of which ARE TRACKABLE ON OTHER SITES!!!) thread is okay because it's "so old".

Does anybody else smell an under-handed, money-hungry double-standard here?
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The harder the task, the greater the reward!

[Mousekakat]

It's gotten extremely out of hand, but nothing will happen from your message or any other message we send.

There is ONE thing that will result in change, and I don't think you nor I nor anyone else, especially those of us in design, are going to do it, and that is to stop buying tracking numbers and stop renewing our memberships.

Money walks and bullshit talks, and right now they've got our money and keep getting more, so why should they do anything to change things, we don't "matter."

[fox-and-the-hound]

Well this was a problem once before between Eartha, FSM and myself. I went directly to GS after speaking to a 3rd mod from a different forum. Low and behold they came down on the geocoin mods for their heavy-handedness. Do I think they will this time, probably not, but I did report the issue under the previous Ticket # as a reoccuring problem so we'll see.

You make an excellent point, too. If every designer out there encourages making non-trackables vs. trackables do you realize how much money that will cost groundspeak? I did a little math last night and realized that just from my own projects commercial and personal coins, that they've reaped 6 figure numbers from my efforts!!! I'm just one designer, but what if 10 or 20 turned their backs on groundspeak? Think of the implications...

How long do you really think it will take before some enterprising web-guru builds a better tracking site for coins? TravelerTags.com already does it, but it could be done much better and even include icons. I'm already happy to move traveling sigs and I'm sure others are, too from the number of people I've seen move my own. Food for thought.
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The harder the task, the greater the reward!

[007BigD]

This is all so Very Very interesting!!! Its amazing what is brought to light by others here...I really had no idea they were so heavy handed in these issues!!!...I have had my own dislikes for certain issues that have arised, but MAN!...YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN ME!
They are 100%valid points and sure does make you think!

I have wanted to poll up all the trackable coins that have ever been produced and get some numbers- I can only imagin the astounding figures!...Its all politics and I just assume leave it out of my hobbies, BUT HOW CAN YOU When a freakin Tracking number and icon can be as much as 1/3 of your costs when producing a coin!!! and then to only allow us to discuss the coins that we pay them for!!!

It makes me sick to think of all the money they make off us and to Big brother us the way they do...ITS OUR HOBBY!!! ITS FUN FOR US...Its not about the money except to the ones we give it all too!!! And what do we get from that??? The Hammer!

Why I ever made my personal trackable is beyond me!...I wanted it to travel, I wanted them "discovered" I wanted them special, but in the same hand these issues discussed here were in the back of my mind...Just not so clearly!!!

And for a pathtag to not be considered a coin??? Sheesh!- Gimme a break!
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Ha FSM...Delete this!!!!~ Watcha got now!!!!

[MustangJoni]

I'd like to say that I treat my pathtags just as I do my coins. They are included in my coin tracking list. They are displayed in my binders, just as coins are.

Maybe the subject to discuss on GS is what constitutes a Geocoin? I think different people have different answers. I think anything that is a metal sig item from a cacher is a geocoin. Trackable or not. I think, and again, just my opinion, that any coin that is trackable is a geocoin, whether it is geocaching related or not, due to the fact that it can be a traveler. I also think if it is geocaching related, it doesn't have to be trackable to be a geocoin.

The main problem with making non-trackable coins, is that nobody will buy them. I know I can make non-trackable coins at a greatly reduced price, and pass that savings along. But nobody seems to want them.

I've made my newest personal non-trackable. It was never meant to sell. The cost to me on it was $2.81 each. I made 200 of them. Had I made it trackable, the price would have gone up to $5.01, because I would have had to make 250 instead of 200. I would have had to pay the mint to put the numbers on in addition to the price of the tracking numbers and icon.