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RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

this is a duplicate of what i wrote in the big blue geocoin forum jail since i am sure eartha will close my thread there and ban me again. i shall invite the guy to post over here.

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once again earthas heavy-handed clomp clomp clomp on the forum was simply wrong.

the guy talking about hand engraved coins was not offereing them for sale, but simply getting ideas - and seeing how much he thought people would pay. he never said they would not be trackable. much like micke77 never offered them for sale, but simply taking the temperature of the forum members.

when did soliciting an opinion become illegal under the guidelines? let's answer that question, shall we?

and i will post this elsewhere so we can continue the discussion on the other forum since i give ol' heavy-handed eartha about 10 minutes to close this post too, since it calls her poor judgement into question once again.
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RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

as i expected, i was banned for pointing out that the original poster had not tried to sell a non-trackable coin on geocaching.com. i know many of you do not agree with my actions and think i am provoking the mods. but i am simply trying to point out that the mods are NOT following the guidelines of geocaching.com but doing their own thing. here is the message i got from fsm.

RedShoesGirl,

I know that you know the rules and are fully expecting this so I will spare you any long email on the subject. This email will serve as official notice that I have suspended your posting rights for 10 days effective immediately.

During this suspension, do not attempt to post under any alternate or "sock puppet" accounts, nor have anybody post messages on your behalf.

Future violations of the forum guidelines may result in a longer or even permanent suspension of your posting privileges in the Groundspeak Forums.

- FSM
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RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

i like the new part - don't have anyone post on my behalf.

and this is what i wrote the appeal person.

please read the original post

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=211421

where the OP was soliciting an opinion about the possibility of making handmade geocoins.

eartha closed the thread saying

"If these coins are not trackable on geocaching.com, they cannot be sold here, no matter how beautiful they are. When you decide if they if they will be trackable, you can let me know and I will re-open this thread. Otherwise, this thread is not allowable. You have enough replies to know that people like your work, but first you need to read Groundspeak's Current Coin Tracking Policy, Coin Tracking Requirements. Geocoins must be trackable on www.geocaching.com, in order to be posted for sale here. Otherwise, you can only use these forums to trade them, in the pinned trading thread. You post doesn't mention anything about tracking, so I am closing this thread, and if you decide to go trackable, please let me know via PM or email, and we can re-open the thread."

but when you read the original post you can see that he was not selling non-trackable coins, he was asking what people thought and expressed what he thought such a coin would cost. he did not do anything against the forum rules.

yet once again, eartha's heavy-handed behaviour closed a thread that people were interested in participating. she and fsm seem to have their own interpretation of the guidelines regardless of what they really say.

of course i was suspended again for pointing out eartha's poor behaviour. i would like to know when the powers that be are going to stop supporting such "heavy-handed" actions by mods. they seem to have unlimited power to treat forum members like children.

premium members and their fees are what supported the forums since the beginning and yet, the messages to me all say they are tired of this kind of "stuff"

i certainly do not expect whoever is reading this to actually "do" anything, but one does live in hope that you guys will open your eyes, just once. please point out to me where the OP in the referenced thread broke the rules.
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fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

I think I understand and even approve of Eartha's inquiry as to whether they would be trackable. However, I heartily disapprove of closing it first and asking second. A simple "would these be trackable?" would have been more than sufficient or even letting the engraver know that only trackables could be sold in that forum would work.

I don't understand the stomp on a person first tactic, then ask what their actual intentions are mentality. It's become very much a guilty until you can prove your innocence mentallity over there. Has anybody else noticed that there is seldom more than a dozen people on that forum at one time anymore instead of the 40-60 there used to be? I doubt that is coincidence. Sad

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fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

There are actually 28 on right now (the most I can remember seeing in weeks) and probably only because they're reading the posts in question.
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RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

57Chevy · Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 10

Well... I agree with Eartha in that it should have been pointed out in the OP whether or not the coins would be trackable or not... I disagree that the thread was slammed shut so quickly. I agree with FnH that it should have stayed open in the interim time that was required to determine the trackification. But.. it was Eartha's call to make, good bad or otherwise.
I do think a suspension was a little much.
I thought this was the forum to vent in... Rolling Eyes

And yes.. there aren't as many people in the main forums as there used to be... there are (expletive deleted) with superiority complexes that prevent that. How groundspeak hasn't put them in check by now is beyond me. I won't name names, but it's pretty obvious who thinks they own the forums, and have nothing positive to contribute.

RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

Tooey · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 193

fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

So I've been e-mailing back and forth with this guy and got the scoop.

1) He's just discovered caching this week.
2) He discovered a geocoin and went nuts!!! (go figure, we did too - lol)
3) He's been doing engraving for 2 years as a hobby.
4) He puts two and two together and goes to the coin forum to see if anyone would be interested in his hobby as a contribution to geocoin creation.
5) He gets smacked down instantly for not being a veteran of the gestapo mentality of the coin forums. Rolling Eyes

Just to sum up...

His post title is a question.
His post subtitle is a question.
His post content is full of questions.

The result... The oh-so-helpful mods kick his butt to the curb for daring to ask questions.

Excuse me, but isn't asking questions when looking for answers the entire point of a geocoin forum?

edit to add: Oh, by the way, it also appears he was online in the forums at the time so he could have been asked via a PM if the mods were actually curious. Course, it's apparently easier to make an example of him Rolling Eyes

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57Chevy · Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 10

Tooey · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 193

ElliPirelli · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 394 Location: Kassel, Germany

Mousekakat · Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 149 Location: Sweden

fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

The Moop Along · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 42

Well, I hate to pick sides. But I'll say this. I only come over here to see the aftermath when the ranters need to come over here and blow off steam Laughing

That's not intended at anyone in particular, but if I want to talk coins, I do it over at Groundspeak Wink

Occasionally I find a topic where I can provide real input, but mostly it's a soap opera. Watch only, and that's exactly why no one posts. They don't have to. They're watching all the drama unfold around them.
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geocachingdragon · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject:

I understand the complaint that it may seem like a bitchfest over here ,it is only because you are allowed to say what you want.
As far as wanting to talk coins you do it at the big g It makes sense to go there as there is a very select amount of people that come here so your market or audience is limited but it doesnt make here any less valid. Try talking coins path tags trackable and nontrackable over there and see what happens . I rarely see any topic on signiture items .
And as far as the drama goes this is a local cable channel show as compared to what happens over there. Will this forum ever over take the big G i would say never and i dont think that is what the original intent was or is now.
This is just a nice little out of the way coffee shop sit relax say what you want or you need to say. Chat a little or just look . It aint Chapters or a big corporate Starbucks .

I Hope every one is going to have a good 2009 .
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MustangJoni · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 63

The mods have been told to close any thread if it pertains to non-trackable coins. They have to use their judgement on that. The poster was a newbie, and did not know these rules. When he started talking about the price of the coins, that made it a sales thread.

If we want to question their actions, we would be better served to PM them, and PM Groundspeak with our concerns. It should be done professionally, and in a friendly manner. This goes much further than attacking a mod in a thread that you know is going to be closed.

In the past, FSM closed a thread. I felt that it was closed prematurely. I PM'd him and told him the reasons why I felt the thread should remain open. Guess what? He opened it back up! That may not always happen, but the mods are reasonable people, and if you treat them with respect, you will get it in return. They are only human. If you treat them with contempt and disdain, don't be surprised that your posts get scrutinized.

fox-and-the-hound · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Northeast PA

MustangJoni · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 63

Here is his exact wording:

"Price, you might ask? It could vary very-very much, mostly it would depend on the complexity. The above engraving took about 4 hours. Much simpler/faster styles could be used, check my blog to see different tries.

So let's say coin with 1 inch diameter and both sides engraved could run from $15USD to... well, no upper limit really."
.

RedShoesGirl · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 268 Location: mojave desert

Team Shydog · Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Indiana

ElliPirelli · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 394 Location: Kassel, Germany

All I can see, is that whatever RSG says, is slammed into the ground.

I might not agree with her way of putting her foot in it time and time again. But I have to say, more often than not she's got a point.
That she tends to overdo it, has probably to do with her being banned so often.

What kind of punnishment is that anyway? No wonder, she feels treeted like a child. Go into the corner of the classroom, off you go. If I don't like, what I get to hear, I don't even send my kids outside, only when they really grate my nerves and can't listen or accept an argument. But this no way to treat equals, which we all should be on a forum. I pretty much feel it should be democraty, not monarchy... whith the mods being king and queen and superior...

Never mind who said when what, if there is something we don't agree with, we should be able to voice our different opinion! Not being send into the corner of the classroom with a note in the book and with continiued misbehavior banned for longer periods...

Is it only RSG or are others treated like that as well?
I know of one or two who mentioned it, but I can't really recall why it had happend.

I don't agree with highhanded mannerisms, never mind what was said and done.
And if someone gives out, that RSGs behavior is childish, well, just check what happend before she felt badly treated...
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Mousekakat · Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 149 Location: Sweden